Rudy Muck Comparisons

Below we have three things: a page from a catalogue which shows some information on mouthpieces, another page from a brochure and then a comparison of mouthpieces we had.

We received this catalog page from Kid Dutch, world-renowned vintage mute collector, band leader and all-around great guy. The page is from a 1950 Southern Music Catalog which gives some information on trumpet, cornet and trombone mouthpieces. If you have seen similar information in an old catalog, please let us know --> email us.

We received this page from a brochure sold to us by Dave Hoskins of Ohio. We see some of the M and S designation mouthpieces here in addition to the all familiary, 13C, 17C and 19C standard mouthpieces plus the trombone mouthpieces. If you have seen similar information in an old brochure or catalog, please let us know --> email us.

We've done some measuring on a few of our Rudy Mück trumpet mouthpieces we have to compare them with Bach specifications.

We've made, as the heading suggests, an unofficial, hardly scientific comparison using what we could find in Bach's Mouthpiece Manual and other sources and compared it to "eyeball using a digital micrometer" measurements to come up with the following. If you have any ideas to add or change this page, please let us know --> email us.

This is Bach's diagram

First, we took Bach's diagram and observed the following measurements on the mouthpieces we examined: cup outer rim diameter, rim width, cup inner diameter ( called cup diameter here ), cup depth, and throat size. We also looked at the shape of the cup and classified as either V-shaped or bowl shaped as the diagram shows with the long S curve. One final thing we looked at is the rim shape -- whether it was flat like the diagram or curved being rounded on the edges like this:

Here is the chart we came up with and below it, describing what each column means.

MP#	Size	RMEngr	CREngr	Other Engraving	Cup-Outer	Cup Width	Cup Depth	Throat	Throat Comp	CupType	LipType
1	17C	block	block		Xtra Wide	Wide	Deep	27	Std	V	curved
2	19C	block	block		Xtra Wide	Xtra Wide	Very Deep	24	Large	V	flat
3	19C	block	block	Hand Made - italics	Xtra Wide	Xtra Wide	Very Deep	24	Large	V	flat
4	19C	italics	block		Xtra Wide	Xtra Wide	Deep	27	Std	V	curved
5	11M	block	block		Xtra Wide	Xtra Wide	Xtra Deep	27	Std	V	curved
6	10	italics	italics		Xtra Wide	Xtra Wide	Xtra Deep	22	Xtra Large	V	flat
7	17C	italics	italics	New York	Xtra Wide	Xtra Wide	Medium	27	Std	V	curved
8	18M	block	block	N.Y.-block Hand Made - italics	Xtra Wide	Xtra Wide	Xtra Deep	25	Large	V	flat
9	17C	italics	block	Made in England - italics	Xtra Wide	Xtra Wide	Xtra Deep	28	Med Small	V	flat
10	13C	italics	block	2nd Generation	Xtra Wide	Xtra Wide	Xtra Deep	27	Std	V	curved
11	K	Mück	New York		Wide	Xtra Wide	Xtra Deep	24	Large	Bowl	flat

The column headings mean:

MP# - mouthpiece number
Size - mouthpiece size stamped on mouthpiece
RMEngr - style of engraving for the words Rudy Mück on the mouthpiece
CREngr - style of engraving for the words Cushion Rim on the mouthpiece
OtherEngraving - other engraving on the mouthpiece
Cup-outer - outside diameter of cup compared to Bach standard mouthpieces
CupWidth - same as Rim Width shown in diagram compared to Bach standard mouthpieces
CupDepth - same as Cup Depth shown in diagram compared to Bach standard mouthpieces
Throat - same as Throat dimension in diagram
ThroatComp - same as Throat in diagram compared to Bach standard mouthpieces
CupType - V-shaped cup or bowl shaped as in diagram
LipType - curved edge or flat lip

Discussion:
Rims - All the Rudy Mück trumpet mouthpieces have a wider rim than most Bach mouthpieces -- no surprise here. The rims are approximately 1/8" wider than the Bach W wide-rim mouthpieces. The only one close was a very early Mück mouthpiece, #11 above, which was a very early prototype before the Cushion Rim design was used.
Cups - The cups are fairly deep compared to Bach's. A couple of these were about the same as the Bach 1 which Bach describes as a deep cup. #7 above was a little shallower and similar to a Bach 1C while most of the rest were either deeper or much deeper than the Bach 1 from .03" to .06". The cup diameters were also in general wide and comparable to the Bach 1 mouthpiece in width.
Throats - Throat size was the easiest to measure using numbered drill bits. As you can see from the two columns showing throat sizes, the Rudy Mück mouthpieces varied greatly depending on the size and vintage. The new 2nd Generation mouthpiece had a standard 27 throat.
Cup and Lip Types - All the Rudy Mück trumpet mouthpieces had a V-shaped or funnel-shaped cup except for the very early one #11.

Final Comments: This is a very rough estimation and is in no way meant to be a guide to Rudy Mück trumpet mouthpieces. Throat sizes were easy to measure but all the other measurements are eyeball approximations. The wide rims help to cushion the lips and as Bach says, "increases endurance." The large deep cups do two things as Bach says, "Increases volume, control" and "Darkens tone, especially in lower register." The V-shape or funnel-shape cups seem more like flugelhorn or french horn mouthpieces and may have been used to produce a darker, more mellow tone. OK, now what does this all mean? Try one out and see if it works for you.

Rudy Mück Information Site